MUST READ: Catholics Reel as Camden, NJ, Diocese Whittles Its Parishes
From the New York Times, 1.31.2010.
It’s clear that in the halls of Catholic power in Rome the celibate all-male priesthood takes precedence over serving Catholics with married and/or women priests. Or, in other words, those in power–the Pope and the bishops–would rather control, absolutely, their incredibly shrinking, passive flock than share power. A Jesus-like response? Hardly. No wonder many opt to leave and take their wallets with them.
* * *
Laura Pedrick for The New York Times
UPHEAVAL The Rev. Robert Kantz of Most Holy Redeemer Parish in the Diocese of Camden said, “Other dioceses are not going through pain at this level.”
ELEANOR MEDANY remembers when South Jersey was in thrall to Roman Catholicism. There was a church every mile, or so it seemed, and priests were as common as Chevrolets. Churches like her own, Most Holy Redeemer, were built by parishioners who showed up, hammer in hand, and who hosted countless spaghetti fests and tea bag sales to buy the kneelers and the windows.
That was in 1958. As the years passed, Most Holy Redeemer took root in this town about 20 minutes outside of Philadelphia. The congregation grew fast, and in 1961, members built a school behind their unassuming church to educate their children in the faith.
But next month, Most Holy Redeemer Parish will offer its final Sunday Mass. After that, the building will go mostly unused, reflecting an era of dwindling churchgoers and vanishing priests.
“There is so much blood and sweat in that church,” said Mrs. Medany, who raised four children in the parish, including Deptford’s current mayor, Paul Medany. “We have a church here we busted our humps for. It’s gorgeous and we love it. And we are very upset.”
Most Holy Redeemer is one of 124 parishes in the Diocese of Camden that by year’s end will be merged and whittled to about 70. It is a vast, and painful, undertaking for the area’s 500,000 worshipers.
The Camden consolidation is part of a wave of diocesan retrenchments in the Northeast; just last week, for example, the Diocese of Rockville Centre on Long Island announced that it would offer buyouts to 1,500 workers. But given Camden’s reduction of parishes by 40 percent or more, few other plans have been as far-reaching. The Diocese of Albany announced last year that it would merge or close 20 percent of its 164 parishes. In the Diocese of Buffalo, a bit more than 25 percent of the parishes will no longer offer regular worship. And in the Diocese of Allentown, in Pennsylvania, the figure is 31 percent.
“Other dioceses are not going through pain at this level,” said the Rev. Robert Kantz, Most Holy Redeemer’s administrator.
Several factors explain the scope of the Camden plan. For one, the diocese is dense with churches. Averaging 3,752 members each, Camden’s parishes are smaller than those of any other New Jersey diocese and smaller than many outside the state. The Diocese of Trenton, for example, has 6,932 parishioners on average in each parish; the Diocese of Rockville Center has 11,230.
The Camden Diocese is also particularly frail. A report in 2007 by InsideCatholic.com ranked it 167th out of 176 dioceses in terms of overall health, using measures like the number of priests, ordinations and adult converts to Catholicism. In 1969, for example, Camden had 351 priests; today, it has 150, and by 2015, it is expected to have 85.
The one bit of good news for Camden is that only a couple of churches will be closed outright, unlike in many other shrinking dioceses. The bulk will remain open — at least for now — either for Sunday Mass or, as with Most Holy Redeemer, upon request for weddings and funerals. (Most Holy Redeemer will also be used as a school chapel.) But these designated churches will lose their individual parish priests and parish activities like religious education and youth ministry.
In the diocese, 22 percent to 24 percent of Catholics celebrate Mass regularly, which mirrors the national figure. With such sparse attendance, one-third of its 124 parishes — including Most Holy Redeemer — could not meet their basic financial obligations, said Andy Walton, a diocese spokesman.
Bishop Joseph A. Galante, head of the Camden Diocese since 2004, said his decision to consolidate parishes, although difficult, was pivotal to revitalizing Catholicism in South Jersey.
“With all these individual parishes, effectively we’ve lost 76 to 78 percent of our people who don’t practice the faith,” the bishop said. “To keep doing the same thing over and over again in the same way and expect different results, as you know, is a sign of insanity.”
He said that parishes needed a critical mass of worshipers to attract young people and immigrants, two points that parishioners have made to him. Parishes must also be big enough to pay staff members and not rely on volunteers.
After an analysis of location and other factors, Most Holy Redeemer was merged with St. Matthew’s and St. Patrick’s, both nearby. The new parish, to be called Holy Angels, will be based at St. Patrick’s, which is using its gym as a revamped worship site to accommodate the new parishioners. Two other parishes will also serve Deptford residents.
Most Holy Redeemer “was not able, on its own, to be strong enough to provide the kind of outreach and ministries that are needed,” Bishop Galante said.
But its parishioners are bewildered that their fast-growing township of 30,000 can absorb two Wal-Marts but not a parish. They also do not understand why their parish — with a school, ample parking and many volunteers — was cast aside for one where worshipers will sit on a refashioned basketball court for Mass.
About one-third to half of the worshipers at Most Holy Redeemer are expected to shift to the new parish. Nobody is sure where the rest will go, or if they will stop showing up for Mass altogether.
“To be honest, this is driving me away from the church,” said Karen Countryman, 63, a parishioner since she was 10.
For Denise Mungiole, moving to a new parish after 21 years is akin to a “death,” a fact that the bishop is doing little to allay, she said. “This is my church, my faith,” she said. “You get invested.”
Pamala Messina, who grew up at Most Holy Redeemer, forced herself to go to Mass recently at St. Patrick’s. She was so shaken up, she said, she left in tears.
“I want to go to St. Pat’s,” she said. “I can’t do it.”
Nothing can shake her faith, Mrs. Medany said. She will celebrate Mass — not at Holy Angels, because she cannot set foot in there, she said, but somewhere. Nobody should be surprised, though, if she takes a piece of her church with her. Her family donated a pew decades ago to honor her brother, who died fighting in World War II.
“When you see in the papers a story about an old woman who was walking down Delsea Drive with a pew on her back, you’ll know it’s me,” she said.
26 Responses to “MUST READ: Catholics Reel as Camden, NJ, Diocese Whittles Its Parishes”
February 1, 2010 at 2:41 am
The cloth of the common good is hemmed with the thread of isolation. What is inside stays within certain borders, and what stays outside, remains void of necessary communication. We are becoming One, Holy, Fragmented, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
John XXIII help us all!
February 1, 2010 at 2:49 am
The uncommon good includes the ghosts of society. Those who are unseen, forgotten, marginalized, voiceless, powerless, disenfranchised, disinherited, and neglected by others who hold prejudice against them.
Those whose tears are not a gift, but are imposed upon them as they cry out from the terror of abuse. Be aware of the signs of the times and react because this is what Christians do. We become proactive and unburden those who are weighed down.
We know that there is no salvation outside of the Church. But, good Christian or bad Christian—we are the Church; and we must always work toward saving one another.
Yes, we are Christians without borders…and as Catholics….some will carry both pew and altar on their backs.
Be thankful for all the joy of the past…and I grieve with you.
February 1, 2010 at 4:35 am
In this article it mentions that;
” with Most Holy Redeemer, upon request for weddings and funerals. (Most Holy Redeemer will also be used as a school chapel.” & “including Most Holy Redeemer — could not meet their basic financial obligations”.
if this church will only be opened on occasions, “than where will the financial support come from?’.
How much is the church & school property real estate worth?
I think that the parishioners should be allowed to take back what is rightfully theirs.
Its better to let the original owners have their pews & altars back rather than down the road sell them to a Saloon owner for a price.
( Even Germany wanted to give back all the property taken from the Jews during WWII after the Eastern Block fell 1n 1989-1990)
When RCC make the decisions to close parishes w/o hearing from the ones (sheep/servants) who put time & money into making it a an outward physical resemblance of their inward beliefs than they are the Bolshevists all over again. insanity repeating itself.
Why not give the church back & reopen as a community/cultural center for the people in the area.
Church is built from with in the hearts of the faithful, the building & furnishings are the outward signs of the inward sign.
February 1, 2010 at 4:45 am
We are all the children of God…born, or unborn…we are all the Church!
February 1, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Yes Thomas,
We Are all Children of God,
-but how is it that the children of God are separated by a price tag? by states in life distinguished by the clothes or robes that is worn?.
How is it that the ones who hear the message represent the message more than the one’s who claim to be the messengers?
Isn’t what is good for the goose, good for the gander?, surely by using so many volunteers puts people out of jobs?
Do you know what is the real message of this RCC Inc. is?
It’s a Scam, putting a invisible monopoly on one’s Soul, by “Selling Morality” for one’s Salvation!
The RCC Inc. gets free labor, free money & free jurisdiction to do what they want when they want with out any say from the ones who put all of the personal & financial investment into the creation of their church they built.
That is Dictatorship, Communism, Bolshevistic society that RCC Inc. have created for THEMSELVES, a certain percentage of the “privilege” who wear elaborate & expensive centuries old robes & such!
Someone once said’
“The Pope has more money than God”
and they are right God doesn’t need money but the RCC Inc. does!
Why is that?
What kind of bill of goods is sold to get the sheep to pay for with out having any say about their investment?
at 401k, there is some say about their money.
Why not ask the Pope for some return on that money taken from all of the sheep past & present?
No wonder why there are soooooo many churches that open up, its a money maker for the one at the top who claim to be the messengers!
February 1, 2010 at 12:25 pm
ah, the poor sheep are used & abused in more ways they know, how SAD is that!
February 1, 2010 at 12:39 pm
RCC Inc. takes & takes from the blood, sweat, tears from the sheep/servants & most of all they take the MONEY!,
and what do they give back? telling you you are going to heaven as long as you stay a Catholic?
How do they have that right to say that? Did God say that?
ah, they got more ways to scam the innocent than they can shake a stick @.
February 1, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Lets just size it up in a nutshell, call a spade a spade, not sugar coat things & be on the square about it.
The RCC Inc. is just a haven for a certain number of the privilege, the elect if you will.
Now, in order to be apart of this club you have to join & swear all of your God given life’s RIGHTS away,
so that they can have a “RULING CLASS” of the so-called perfect who are imperfect but make everyone believe the Emperor is wearing clothes called & is marked by an invisible noose around the neck.
This ruling class is just another name for the game of Ancient Mysteries practiced by the Ancient World,
so this is why they need the funding for everyone, to sponsor their “mysterious habit” and yet, while doing this they can brainwash & mind control the world!
That is the name of their game! IMO.
so the next time they ask for your support, go tell them to get a job & pound Rock Salt!
you can quote me if you like.
February 1, 2010 at 11:21 pm
It’s too bad that the parishioners of Most Holy Redeemer in Camdem, NJ, who over the years have invested millions of dollars of sweat equity into the development of their parish, couldn’t parley that sweat equity into actual control of the property!
Then Most Holy Redeemer parishioners could go out and hire their own priest (rentapriest.com which provides the services of former priests, now married, many retired) and continue their spiritual practices unencumbered by the corporate clergy sell-outs who currently masquerade as bishops.
All the rituals and activities of their parish could continue until there are no more families to support the parish’s ministries. In other words, it could go on forever – just like many church communities in other denominations.
The key is that the parishioners are victims, dupes, of a system rigged by the clerics in which the folks in the pews are expected to pay and pay for all the shennanigans of the corporate clergy.
In essence the corporate clergy are saying: “Just keep your mouth shut while we wastefully spend all your money on maintaining our little exclusive, all-boys club. We may even have to spend the money which you gave to support the ministries of the church to pay for our sexual deviant excursions with your sons and daughters. You should be used to it by now after decades, centuries of being held down as lowly spiritual serfs in service to us clerical feudal lords.”
In my view, this situation in Camdem, NJ reveals, from another perspective, the same central truth learned from the sexual abuse scandal which has roiled the Catholic Church for almost a decade: Because the corporate clerics have sole control (called “corporation sole” in legalese) of all the financial and property resources of the church, the clerics were able to “FUND,” or underwrite, the rape and sodomy of thousands of children over decades, all over the world.
Don’t fool yourself! I’m not just talking about the over $2 BILLION spent to settle claims of survivors (mostly going to attorneys on both sides). If you are going to commit rape and sodomy with impunity as the clerics did, it took a lot of money to set things up in this criminal enterprise (a place to commit the assaults, hush money to the families, bribes for silence, hiring high-priced legal thugs to attack survivors, purchase high-priced “self-insurance” and media consultants to handle the public up-roar, etc.)
One perpetrator priest, by the name of Ochoa, in Santa Rosa, CA supplied his victims and their families, mostly from working class immigrant families, with credit cards to compensate them for their silence and continued compliance to his sexual appetites. Ochoa fled to Mexico just ahead of the police after being tipped off by his “brother” Bishop Walsh. Walsh apologized for his “serious lapse in judgement” and the local district attorney, a prominent local Catholic, refused to indite the bishop as an criminal accessory. Clerical criminals are so slick, aren’t they?
Let’s face it, you and I, the proverbial “Joe & Mary Pews,” have been funding the rape and sodomy of children for years because we have blindly been giving priests money with no strings attached because we stupidly and naively thought that we could trust them. Feel betrayed? You should.
I don’t give cash donations to the church anymore – certainly not in the collection basket. Every donation now has a paper trail. Everything is directed giving to specific ministries, such as Haiti relief, Loaves & Fishes, religious education programs for children, etc.
The solution which would end this kind of exploitation by the corporate clerics would be for each group of parishioners to incorporate as a non-profit foundation, for example, “Most Holy Redeemer Foundation.”
Instead of parishioners giving money to the parish (which is tantamount to giving it to the local bishop – as we have seen in the case of Camden, NJ), especially cash donations at Sunday Mass offertory, parishioners would then give their donations to a tax-deductible fund, controlled by a foundation made up of their fellow parishioners on a board of directors, who are elected and chosen from among themselves – in other words their neighbors and friends. Thus, accountability will be built in.
These local parish foundations would be free of manipulation by the money-grubbing corporate bishop and diocese. For sure, bishops and pastors will squeal like stuck pigs, but they will have to learn that they better behave or they can be cut-off financially. The interests of these foundations would be entirely local in scope. The parish, using the civil laws of the United States, would determine their own spiritual affairs and destinies.
The local parish would then decide which buildings to construct, which buildings to repair, which property to sell, which ministries to support, which ministries to let go, which priests to hire, which ministers to let go, which liturgies to conduct, in which language, etc. The local parish could then exert its own will in its own communal and spiritual life as it should be, and as Vatican II foresaw.
I know that this is a radical idea for most Catholics, but if they don’t stand up like adults and demand to be treated as such, then I fear the church may well go the way it has in most of Europe and North Africa.
The Apostle Paul wrote: “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.” (1 Cor. 13:11)
It’s long past time we followed Paul’s counsel.
February 2, 2010 at 4:58 am
I believe that Jesus would approve of radical ideas which defend His teachings. Yes, the Catholic laity must and should stand up for their rights as heirs to the promises of heaven as baptised Christians. It is always better to own one’s house and respect it as a shelter—in this case, a spiritual shelter…as opposed to having a landlord sell the property from under the family who dwells within. What is hierarchy thinking? They are acting like the apostles who cowered and ran until on Pentecost, they could not run from the Spirit. The only apostles with unwavering faith were those at the foot of the cross—those three stood the course and did not run—one man and two women—they accepted what they could not change. Today, for Christ…laity must change that which is unacceptable.
February 2, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Lets be realistic. Parishioners of a parish can incorporate as a non-profit foundation or organizartion BUT that doen’t give them one ounce of control over their church building and properties. Do you honestly believe that the bishops would just stand by without taking legal action. They have control of your money, legally. They have control of all church property, legally. They have the law and politicians on their side. So where do you go with your non profit foundation. The bishops have control of all Catholic publications. How do you communicate with the pew Catholic? Local newspapers don’t want to get involved with church squabbles. If you leave the church, you lose. If you continue to attend Mass there will be no change. If you stop contributing, there are still enough head in the sand Catholics that you are unable to communicate with that will continue to contribute to the bishops. Only until the national media gets involved and stays involved will it be possible to make any change in how the bishops behave. Only when it is possible to communicate with millions and millions of Catholics will it be possible to make a change . Untill then, concerned Catholics will be just spinning their wheels. And that’s the gospel truth.
February 2, 2010 at 7:54 pm
If the people of God left these churches that the dioceses says they own and controlled, and collectively purchased property and turned it into sacred space for gathering and worship; the people would own this realty and could manage it as they wished. They could choose their own ministers…and if hierarchy forbade sacraments on site, I dare them to forbid prayer!
February 3, 2010 at 10:32 am
Thomas,
How can the hierarchy forbid sacraments aka rituals, when these very same rituals are performed by many other non Catholic religions & cultures through out the world long before Catholicism came into existence?
What do they have a “Sola” enterprising “trademark” on rituals? What can they do? threaten Catholics that their lives here on Earth will end, and they will not go to heaven in the afterlife if they don’t abide by their rules?
or, use the blame shame of guilt game on ones soul for submission to robotic like clones?
Now, that’s unique in the eyes of God!
That’s what the Creator had in mind when she/he created us upright beings!
Why isn’t the world at large deeply troubled and concerned over World Wide Clergy Abuse,
you’ll have to go back to the beginning.
Now we know price of church brainwashing
Monday, December 28, 2009
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/now-we-know-price-of-church-brainwashing-108524.html#ixzz0dHWWRtde
reform-network.net/index.php?paged=5
Here is why brainwashing resulted in deference to a corrupt Catholic Church
January 21, 2010
February 3, 2010 at 10:54 am
What does RC do to make something to be called & venerated as Sacred?
They put bones/relics of dead people in the altars, and these people are considered by the church honorable for veneration? and in reality these dead people were also taught distorted truth about God aka Roman Theology, not a true theology about an unbiased God.
So its like going to a cemetery to celebrate for the ones who are living. That’s creepy.
Just ask any Native American Indian how they feel about their burial grounds.
February 3, 2010 at 7:59 pm
To Tomassotucson:
While I agree it may be too late for the people of Most Holy Redeemer of Camdem, NJ, it is not too late for the rest of us to begin to prepare for the day when the corporate clerics will try to sell off YOUR parish’s property right there in Tucson.
The point is that we have to begin somewhere to begin to bring the power of the purse to bear upon the hierarchs.
As a matter of fact, there is a national Polish parish in St. Louis, MO which was able to incorporate years ago (certainly a historical anomaly) separate from the legal tent which the archdiocese has set up. They have accumulated over $7 million dollars in trust over the years which the former archbishop was lusting after. Sure, the archbishop did “excommunicated” the openly gay priest (from Poland to boot!), hired independently by the parish, who refused to turn the money over to the archbishop. I don’t know what was the final disposition and particulars of this case, but the parish does continue on operating.
Also as a matter of fact, there are parish foundations springing up all over the country in isolated parishes which are very helpful in raising money for specific parish goals (repair of aging sanctuaries, keeping schools operating, etc.). These parishes are doing this in order to shield the funds from the rapacious diocese and maintain local control.
These parish foundations are able to exert local control because they are the ones who target the spending to the priorities they themselves determine. The church throughout its history has been very accommodating to patrons who support the church with funds for construction, music and art. Think of this as instead of one patron, it is an parish accumulation of patrons!
If Tomassotuscon is looking for a magic wand which will wipe away clerical corporatism instantly, it doesn’t exist – it won’t happen.
Tomassotuscon states that we need the platform of a national communication system in order to effect an change. He’s right. Well, we have just such a platform: it is called the internet! Good thing it’s relatively low cost. And, it is an excellent way to reach especially the younger segments of the population (read: the FUTURE!)
VOICE OF THE DESERT is a good example of what good be done. Maybe Tomassotuscon could start a non-profit foundation to support this kind of communication system!
The clerical corporatists have a several centuries head-start. Granted, they are very entrenched. It will take years, even decades of sustained political counteraction to overcome the oppression of the clerics.
Since this is a political, and not a religious or theological, problem we need to apply the Golden Rule of politics: HE or SHE WHO HAS THE GOLD, RULES! Who are we kidding, it’s always been that way in the church, for sure.
Forget trying to talk and reason with bishops: as the psalmist writes, “They have eyes but see not; they have ears but hear not.” (Ps 115:5)
Sad, but true: There will be no change in the church until ‘Joe & Mary Pews’ get control of the money. I’m sure Jesus and Mary approve!
February 3, 2010 at 10:24 pm
To Jim Jenkins,
Did you ever hear that joke about a farmer being asked by a lost person,for directions as to how to get to his destination and the farmer replied,” you can’t get there from here.”
Well my point is this in response to your statement to me, “the point is that we have to begin somewhere to bring the power of the purse to bear upon the hierarchy.” Why, when the bishops have failed throughout the whole country have we been fighting one fire after another Jim.
Our problem is not only Nation- wise, it’s global. Yes, we should be concerned about problems in all parishes but if we lose sight of the main objective, we’ll never, ever, ever succeed in correcting the power balance were up against . “Maybe tomassotucson could start a non-profit foundation to support this kind of communication system,” you said. You got part of that right. There should be a non-profit foundation to support getting the kind of communications that is needed to reach the millions of Catholic’s that are un-informed as to this global problem with our failed leadership. I could put it in stronger terms and I will. Millions of uninformed Catholic’s have to be alerted as to how our bishops have been using billions of dollars of church money, protecting abusive priests and themselves: allowing abusive priests to go Scott free without having to register as sex offenders, selling of church properties to cover their expenses and fail to even indicate that they are the problem or willing to show any attempt to take any responsibility. This is just for starters. Millions and millions of church-goers still are in the dark.
But I’m not the right guy. Frank Douglas would have been the right guy but what with quadruple by-pass, a stroke and a code blue, he’s struggling just to get up and walk and yet, he’s back working his butt off putting out ,”The Voice From The Desert.”
When I read about Gabriel Byrne’s sexual abuse, the first thought that came to my mind was, God bless him for coming out in print, but selfishly, I thought, now that’s the kind of nationally known person that would command national press if he took up our cause. Jim, that is what it will take to get the attentionof the National media, politicians, government leaders and Catholics throughout the country. Without someone with name recognition to be our Joan of arc our cause is hopeless, utterly hopeless.
I’m 87 yrs old. Frank Douglas knows me. My pastor knows me. Our bishop Kicanas knows me all to well. But I’m nobody. All I can do is keep my pastor and bishop aware of my lack of trust and faith in what’s is going on.
I did send an email to David Clohessy weeks ago, suggesting that VOTF, an organization that is doing a tremendous job, that to achieve any material changes, we must get the millions of pew Catholics informed and involved but I never did any response. I don’t have to tell you how much control the bishops have over all, every bit of Catholic communications. They know that even with the internet, we can only reach so many people. We don’t get to the millions my age that continue to bow down to the men in purple. The bottom line is, we need a nationally known person or organization to champion our cause, or succeeding will be just a dream for years and years to come.
February 4, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Sorry, David Clohessy is with SNAP. What was I thinking.
February 4, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Hey Deanna…can I help it if many of my posts are liquidated before they appear as comments? Hierarchy as bullish as they are can declare on a whim what they will and end up terrorizing the flock into obedience…so, go figure—where exactly does all this power come from. You don’t think it might be a predisposition caused by a genetic flaw in character do you?
February 5, 2010 at 3:47 am
What? Of course the archbishop of St. Louis was lusting after dollars to infuse a financially strapped archdiocese, to meet payment for sexual abuse cases, and quite possibly to pay debt down on a shrine he had built in WI. The Polish church was financially more stable until their priest and laity were forced to pay for legal defense. The archdiocese has shown little regard for the people of God and all of this heartache could have been avoided through dialogue, ethical behavior, and empathetic compassion, as opposed to arrogance, bullyism, and deceit. Sexual identity was never a part of the equation except in order to assault the character of the parish priest. To deny a parish and its population the sacraments is not a Christian thing to do—and when SNAP turns up the heat in WI…do you think the main flowers are still going to smell like a rose?
February 6, 2010 at 4:00 am
Hey Thomas..
I can’t help when my post get vaporized let alone yours getting liquidated.
as for me..I agree & can’t stand any apart of the bull coming from the hierarchy.
Where does all the power come from?
could it be a three letter word 2 syllables
Ergo the Ego?
or
“The more abstract, the greater the computational power we gain by zooming out and skipping over the irrelevant details”
http://www.answers.com/topic/genetic-predisposition
http://www.answers.com/topic/intentional-stance
maybe that is why everything back in the day was written in Latin (dead language) nothing could be changed or altered just like the RC Dogmas & Doctrines, leaving God finite for the all male priesthood to rule/lord/ over the common through mind control.
February 6, 2010 at 4:38 am
How is it that the hierarchy can make a decision in a split second when it comes to excommunicating women priests from the RCC Inst., and then drag their feet when it comes to making a decision in defrocking & excommunicating all pedophiles priests, and those who covered the crimes up?
how does that work?
seems more chauvinistic, a prejudice from the beginning of time and still lingering on,
why is that?
oh, SNAP can’t crank up the heat fast enough!
What came first power or corruption?
seems to me the more power at stake the more corruption there is to protect the power,
in which leads little room for the higher power to take over!
February 7, 2010 at 3:03 pm
Hierarchy has interpreted the Gospels to mean only one thing…what they want it to be. But, the Church has always been diverse as a living people. The message was for everyone and not just the chosen who have chosen themself. Why would God discriminate against His own creation? Why would He not love women? Why would He not call them? Why would He not ordain them? His Spirit can do the unmentionable…it did not curse the man who hung upon a tree…so, why would He curse women who will have hung upon a tree of predjuice longer than His own Son?
February 7, 2010 at 3:21 pm
What is soon to shake the power of the Church in Rome besides the ideations behind the Apostolic Visits where the visitors must take an oath to the pope… For normal studies, no one has to take an oath before doing a survey—including census workers—and what about the consent factor—all studies need to have consent of those being studied. What will crack hierarchy in the eyes of the world is the canonization of former Pope Pius XII—even if he were a good and holy man, he does not have the paper trails that supports his efforts to save Jews—they would have been out by now. Instead, I nominate the Metropolitian Ukranian Archbishop ANDREW SZEPTYCI who led his monastic communities to shelter the Jews durying their crisis when the world did not move fast enough. God inspires people to do great things….so yes, God too inspires women to be ordained…and He inspires others to fight injustice.
February 7, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Now you got it!
IMO, the hierarchy has interpreted the gospels to show that God is Bias, Prejudice and Discriminates against All, especially women who are not like nor mirror the RC-hierarchy and should have changed it to RCChosen-Anarchy!
hey what took so long?
February 7, 2010 at 3:54 pm
God so Loved women that she created her image in women!
and I do not think that God believes the female gender has the “Koodies”.
-God is not finite as RC Hierarchy would like to keep it & teach it, only for their evil use & abuse to Control Mankind!
“”Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”
February 8, 2010 at 2:43 am
WOW!
What a Half Time Show!
Don’t Get Fooled Again!